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Thought Itself

The History of Philosophy, Logic & The Mind with Eric Gerlach

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Hold Up Holding Up & Kick Kicking To The Curb: Dogen, Japanese Zen & The Seated Soto School

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ericgerlach79

Gerlach is German and rhymes with bear-lock. I was born and raised in the Haight Ashbury of San Francisco, moved to Berkeley for college and grad school, with an MA in History of Religion from the Graduate Theological Union of Berkeley, and now teach Philosophy and the history of human thought at Berkeley City College. I have taught Intro Philosophy, Ethics, Logic, Asian Philosophy, Greek Philosophy, Modern European Philosophy and Social & Political Philosophy there for the past several years, and it has been a joy.

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February 19, 2021

Philosophy

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2 thoughts on “Hold Up Holding Up & Kick Kicking To The Curb: Dogen, Japanese Zen & The Seated Soto School”

Add yours

  1. Warren

    May 14, 2021 at 5:57 am

    Reply

    Well, I have a lot of catching up to do.

    Dogen gets a lot of hate from my peer group interested in Zen. I have read a book by him, and a few about him by Brad Warner. Occasionally there is some neat stuff in there, but when compared to the original Chan Patriarchs, for the most part, it’s uninteresting…

    While Zazen may make me a buddha this inherently makes practice a necessity – even the defense of being (for lack of a better word) mindful during my everyday activity (which is ‘zazen off the cushion’) seems to miss the point by more than a hair’s breadth…. this comes from someone who does Zazen everyday too. I’m fine with meditation.

    Anyway, you expressed similar, though milder, sentiments in this lecture. I will admit, part of me gets pretty upset at all the sitting stuff. As you noticed, Dogen works as a weird bottle neck for the history of Zen. Most don’t even know that Zen masters like Joshu existed, and even less are reading the Blue Cliff Record or the Gateless Gate… And if they do, most of the time they are reading Dogen’s or Sekida’s commentary instead of Yuan wu’s or Wumen’s… That’s.. uh.. too bad…

    One of my peers remarked the problem of treating the Blue Cliff Record and such as koan collections, like Dahuis Shobogenzo. If it’s a collection of Koans you can freely comment on them as you like – but things like the Blue Cliff Record were organized by a Zen master, and then commentated by another Zen master. They are full on literary classics…. And random modern day ‘Zen’ Masters ignore all of this and do what they want with it… Yeah you can call that the Zen spirit but I haven’t been impressed by a lot of it. The best I’ve seen is by Blythe and his translation of the Mumonkan.

    Phew, got that out. Anyway-Anyway, I’ll try to catch up as much as I can. School ended up being very intellectually draining (who knew!) so I lost the will!

    I will probably pick and choose as I want, but I will be around.

    Great lecture !

    Reply
  2. ericgerlach79

    May 18, 2021 at 11:20 pm

    Reply

    Thanks for that, and following my talks! I think we should all share and discuss these masters as we wish, and I don’t see what harm comes of that. One of the things I do respectfully think is that studying all the texts as open-ended philosophy is much different from many practicing traditions, and I do my own work and hope it helps others. I also like the early texts and masters most, and wish that they seemed more widespread.

    Reply

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  • Courses
    • Intro – Phil 1
    • Logic – Phil 10
      • Why Talk At All?
      • Talk & Think
      • India & Gautama
      • Greece & Aristotle
      • China & Hui Shi
      • Islam & Avicenna
      • Europe & Aquinas
      • Kant & Hegel
      • Poe & Dupin
      • Mill & Boole
      • Carroll & Alice
      • Venn & Peano
      • Frege & Russell
      • Wittgenstein
      • Fallacies & Puzzles
      • Analytic & Continental
    • Ethics – Phil 31A
      • Ethics? Where?!?
      • Egypt & Babylon
      • Hindus & Jains
      • Buddha
      • Heraclitus
      • Aristotle
      • Epicurus & Stoics
      • Confucius
      • Mozi & Xunzi
      • Daoism
      • Kant
      • Mill
      • Nietzsche
      • Wittgenstein
      • Fanon, hooks & Said
    • Politics – Phil 2
      • Human Politics
      • Mencius & Mozi
      • Plato’s Republic
      • Aristotle’s Politics
      • Machiavelli
      • Hobbes
      • Locke
      • Rousseau
      • Mill
      • Thoreau
      • Socialism
      • Communism
      • Hegel & Marcuse
      • Anarchism
      • Fascism
      • Postcolonialism
      • Feminism
    • Asia – Phil 37
    • Buddha – Phil 16
    • Greece – Phil 20A
    • Europe – Phil 20B
    • Religion – Hum 40
      • Islam
      • Neo-Platonism
        • Augustine
        • Dionysius
        • Eriugena
        • Francis
        • Aquinas
        • Ockham
        • Cusanus
        • Ficino
      • Protestantism
      • New Religions
  • Americas
    • The Mayans & Aztecs
    • Edgar Allan Poe
      • Philosophy of Furniture
      • Rue Morgue Murders
      • Marie Roget
      • Purloined Letter
    • Henry David Thoreau
    • Comedy & Cynicism
      • Ambrose Bierce
      • Groucho Marx
    • Pragmatism
      • Charles Sanders Peirce
      • William James
      • John Dewey
      • Richard Rorty
      • Cornel West
  • West
    • Britannia
      • William Of Ockham
      • Thomas Hobbes
      • John Locke
      • David Hume
      • George Berkeley
      • John Stuart Mill
      • Augustus De Morgan
      • Lewis Carroll
      • Bertrand Russell
    • France
      • Rene Descartes
      • Politics
        • Jean-Jacques Rousseau
        • Henri de Saint-Simon
      • Surrealism
        • George Bataille
        • Dada & Modern Art
      • Existentialism
        • Jean-Paul Sartre
        • Franz Fanon
      • Structuralism
        • Jean-Claude Levi-Strauss
        • Jacques Lacan
        • Roland Barthes
        • Michel Foucault
      • Postmodernism
        • Jean-Francois Lyotard
        • Gilles Deleuze
        • Jean Baudrillard
        • Donna Haraway
        • Jacques Derrida
    • Germania
      • Rationalism
        • Baruch Spinoza
        • Gottfried Leibniz
        • Immanuel Kant
      • Phenomenology
        • Johann Fichte
        • Friedrich Schelling
        • Georg Hegel
      • Politics
        • Karl Marx & Communism
        • Marcuse & The New Left
      • Pessimism
        • Arthur Schopenhauer
        • Soren Kierkegaard
        • Friedrich Nietzsche
        • Martin Heidegger
      • Ludwig Wittgenstein
    • Greece
      • Poets & Epics
      • The Pre-Socratics
        • Pythagoras
        • Xenophanes
        • Heraclitus
        • Parmenides & Zeno
        • Anaxagoras
        • Empedocles
        • Democritus
      • Socrates
      • Diogenes
      • Plato
        • The Apology
        • The Crito
        • The Meno
        • The Symposium
        • The Republic
        • The Timaeus
        • The Parmenides
        • The Theaetetus
      • Aristotle
        • Metaphysics
        • On The Soul
        • Logic
        • Ethics
        • Politics
      • Skepticism
        • Pyrrho
        • Aenesidemus
        • Sextus Empiricus
      • Epicurus
      • Stoicism
        • Zeno of Citium
        • Chrysippus
        • Epictetus
        • Marcus Aurelius
  • Mid
    • Egypt
      • Hardjedef
      • Ptahhotep
      • Khun-Anup
      • Amenemopet
      • Ani the Scribe
      • Marikare
    • Babylon
      • Pessimism
      • Theodicy
    • Zoroastrianism
    • Judaism
    • Christianity
    • Islam
      • Al Kindi
      • Al Farabi
      • Avicenna
      • Al Ghazali
      • Averroes
  • East
    • India
      • Hinduism
        • The Three Paths
        • The Vedas
        • The Upanishads
        • The Epics
        • Vedanta
        • The Strivers
      • Kanada & Atoms
      • Gautama & Logic
        • Nyaya Debate
        • 4 Sources of Knowledge
        • 3 Ways of Words
        • Forms of Proof
        • Fallacies
      • The Charvakas
      • Jainism
        • The Tirthankaras
        • 3 Points of View
        • Mind Over Matter
        • The Leaky Boat
        • Nonviolence
        • The Whiteclad & Skyclad
      • Buddhism
        • Life & Desire
        • The Middle Way
        • The Monkey Mind
        • Codependent Arising
        • The Dhammapada
        • The Mid-Length Discourses
        • The Long Discourses
        • Ashoka
    • Tibet
    • China
      • The Yi Jing
      • Confucianism
        • Confucius
        • The Mean
        • Great Learning
        • Mencius
        • Xunzi
      • Daoism
        • Yin & Yang
        • Bamboo Laozi
        • Laozi
        • Zhuangzi
        • Liezi
      • Buddhism & Zen
        • Buddha in China
        • Chan (Zen)
        • Bodhidharma
        • Huineng
        • Mazu
        • Linji (Rinzai)
        • Zhaozhou (Joshu)
        • Blue Cliff Record
        • The Gateless Gate
        • Dahui
      • Sunzi & The Art Of War
      • School of Names
        • Hui Shi
        • Gongsun Long
      • Moism
    • Vietnam
    • Korea
    • Japan
      • Buddhism in Japan
      • Hakuin
      • Dogen
      • Musashi
      • Zen Stories
  • Videos
    • Alice & Aristotle
    • Poe The Detective
    • India
    • Plato’s Dialogues
    • Confucius
    • Daoism
    • Zen
    • Phenomenology
    • Existentialism
    • Postmodernism
  • Me

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  • Courses
    • Intro – Phil 1
    • Logic – Phil 10
      • Why Talk At All?
      • Talk & Think
      • India & Gautama
      • Greece & Aristotle
      • China & Hui Shi
      • Islam & Avicenna
      • Europe & Aquinas
      • Kant & Hegel
      • Poe & Dupin
      • Mill & Boole
      • Carroll & Alice
      • Venn & Peano
      • Frege & Russell
      • Wittgenstein
      • Fallacies & Puzzles
      • Analytic & Continental
    • Ethics – Phil 31A
      • Ethics? Where?!?
      • Egypt & Babylon
      • Hindus & Jains
      • Buddha
      • Heraclitus
      • Aristotle
      • Epicurus & Stoics
      • Confucius
      • Mozi & Xunzi
      • Daoism
      • Kant
      • Mill
      • Nietzsche
      • Wittgenstein
      • Fanon, hooks & Said
    • Politics – Phil 2
      • Human Politics
      • Mencius & Mozi
      • Plato’s Republic
      • Aristotle’s Politics
      • Machiavelli
      • Hobbes
      • Locke
      • Rousseau
      • Mill
      • Thoreau
      • Socialism
      • Communism
      • Hegel & Marcuse
      • Anarchism
      • Fascism
      • Postcolonialism
      • Feminism
    • Asia – Phil 37
    • Buddha – Phil 16
    • Greece – Phil 20A
    • Europe – Phil 20B
    • Religion – Hum 40
      • Islam
      • Neo-Platonism
        • Augustine
        • Dionysius
        • Eriugena
        • Francis
        • Aquinas
        • Ockham
        • Cusanus
        • Ficino
      • Protestantism
      • New Religions
  • Americas
    • The Mayans & Aztecs
    • Edgar Allan Poe
      • Philosophy of Furniture
      • Rue Morgue Murders
      • Marie Roget
      • Purloined Letter
    • Henry David Thoreau
    • Comedy & Cynicism
      • Ambrose Bierce
      • Groucho Marx
    • Pragmatism
      • Charles Sanders Peirce
      • William James
      • John Dewey
      • Richard Rorty
      • Cornel West
  • West
    • Britannia
      • William Of Ockham
      • Thomas Hobbes
      • John Locke
      • David Hume
      • George Berkeley
      • John Stuart Mill
      • Augustus De Morgan
      • Lewis Carroll
      • Bertrand Russell
    • France
      • Rene Descartes
      • Politics
        • Jean-Jacques Rousseau
        • Henri de Saint-Simon
      • Surrealism
        • George Bataille
        • Dada & Modern Art
      • Existentialism
        • Jean-Paul Sartre
        • Franz Fanon
      • Structuralism
        • Jean-Claude Levi-Strauss
        • Jacques Lacan
        • Roland Barthes
        • Michel Foucault
      • Postmodernism
        • Jean-Francois Lyotard
        • Gilles Deleuze
        • Jean Baudrillard
        • Donna Haraway
        • Jacques Derrida
    • Germania
      • Rationalism
        • Baruch Spinoza
        • Gottfried Leibniz
        • Immanuel Kant
      • Phenomenology
        • Johann Fichte
        • Friedrich Schelling
        • Georg Hegel
      • Politics
        • Karl Marx & Communism
        • Marcuse & The New Left
      • Pessimism
        • Arthur Schopenhauer
        • Soren Kierkegaard
        • Friedrich Nietzsche
        • Martin Heidegger
      • Ludwig Wittgenstein
    • Greece
      • Poets & Epics
      • The Pre-Socratics
        • Pythagoras
        • Xenophanes
        • Heraclitus
        • Parmenides & Zeno
        • Anaxagoras
        • Empedocles
        • Democritus
      • Socrates
      • Diogenes
      • Plato
        • The Apology
        • The Crito
        • The Meno
        • The Symposium
        • The Republic
        • The Timaeus
        • The Parmenides
        • The Theaetetus
      • Aristotle
        • Metaphysics
        • On The Soul
        • Logic
        • Ethics
        • Politics
      • Skepticism
        • Pyrrho
        • Aenesidemus
        • Sextus Empiricus
      • Epicurus
      • Stoicism
        • Zeno of Citium
        • Chrysippus
        • Epictetus
        • Marcus Aurelius
  • Mid
    • Egypt
      • Hardjedef
      • Ptahhotep
      • Khun-Anup
      • Amenemopet
      • Ani the Scribe
      • Marikare
    • Babylon
      • Pessimism
      • Theodicy
    • Zoroastrianism
    • Judaism
    • Christianity
    • Islam
      • Al Kindi
      • Al Farabi
      • Avicenna
      • Al Ghazali
      • Averroes
  • East
    • India
      • Hinduism
        • The Three Paths
        • The Vedas
        • The Upanishads
        • The Epics
        • Vedanta
        • The Strivers
      • Kanada & Atoms
      • Gautama & Logic
        • Nyaya Debate
        • 4 Sources of Knowledge
        • 3 Ways of Words
        • Forms of Proof
        • Fallacies
      • The Charvakas
      • Jainism
        • The Tirthankaras
        • 3 Points of View
        • Mind Over Matter
        • The Leaky Boat
        • Nonviolence
        • The Whiteclad & Skyclad
      • Buddhism
        • Life & Desire
        • The Middle Way
        • The Monkey Mind
        • Codependent Arising
        • The Dhammapada
        • The Mid-Length Discourses
        • The Long Discourses
        • Ashoka
    • Tibet
    • China
      • The Yi Jing
      • Confucianism
        • Confucius
        • The Mean
        • Great Learning
        • Mencius
        • Xunzi
      • Daoism
        • Yin & Yang
        • Bamboo Laozi
        • Laozi
        • Zhuangzi
        • Liezi
      • Buddhism & Zen
        • Buddha in China
        • Chan (Zen)
        • Bodhidharma
        • Huineng
        • Mazu
        • Linji (Rinzai)
        • Zhaozhou (Joshu)
        • Blue Cliff Record
        • The Gateless Gate
        • Dahui
      • Sunzi & The Art Of War
      • School of Names
        • Hui Shi
        • Gongsun Long
      • Moism
    • Vietnam
    • Korea
    • Japan
      • Buddhism in Japan
      • Hakuin
      • Dogen
      • Musashi
      • Zen Stories
  • Videos
    • Alice & Aristotle
    • Poe The Detective
    • India
    • Plato’s Dialogues
    • Confucius
    • Daoism
    • Zen
    • Phenomenology
    • Existentialism
    • Postmodernism
  • Me

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